Seen nailed on Mars Hill (MI) Church’s Door:
1. the gospel according to Rob Bell is not the Gospel according to the Bible. It is repackaged liberalism.
2. the disciples did not insist, they witnessed the resurrection and testified to it even unto death
3. Jesus was fully man and fully God.
4. Mithra and Attis are fictional, non historical characters. Jesus is a historical figure which no contemporary could deny.
5. The followers of Jesus died because if they said Jesus is Lord instead of Ceasar is Lord, they would be beheaded.
6. The claims of the Christians were true statements, and they were new and frequently led to their death.
7. The gospel is about saving men from their sins; serving is a result of salvation.
8. The actions of the Christians was as a result of their salvation, not earning their salvation.
9. The actions were not to bring the kingdom of God, the Christians were already living there.
10. Moral living, including loving acts of compassion, do not equal salvation.
11. The way of Jesus is not simply a new moral code to follow.
12. The Gospel is not that God hasn’t given up on the world.
13. The Gospel is that wicked criminals (all of us) who have offended God can confess, repent, and place trust in Christ’s work alone for their salvation.
14. You are not the Gospel. Your life reflects the Gospel, or it does not.
Sometime in the 1st century around the year 30A.D. a movement was started by a group of Jews who insisted that their rabbi, a man named Jesus from the Galilee region in Israel, had risen from the dead after being crucified by the Roman Empire. They claimed that after His resurrection they had seen Him and that they had had conversations with Him and had eaten meals with Him.
And then they said that He had ascended to heaven, and that someday He would return. Now, the world at this time was ruled by the Roman Empire; this giant, military, global superpower, from England to India, the Roman Empire ruled the world.
And one of the most popular gods of the Roman Empire was the god Mithra. Mithra’s followers believed that Mithra has been born of a virgin, that he was a mediator between God and humans, and that Mithra had ascended into heaven. Another popular religion at this time centered around the god Attis. The followers of Attis believed that Attis had been born of a virgin; and each spring they gathered to celebrate the resurrection of Attis.
Which takes us back to the Roman Empire, which was ruled by a succession of Emperors called Caesars. The first one, Julius Caesar, when he died, a comet appeared in the sky and people said: “Well, of course, that’s Julius Caesar, the Son of God, ascending to the right hand of the gods of heaven.”
Soon after this Julius Caesar’s adopted son, Caesar Augustus came to power, and Caesar Augutus believed that he was the Son of God sent by the gods to Earth to bring about a universal reign of peace and prosperity. One of his popular propaganda slogans was: “There is no other name under heaven by which people can be saved than that of Caesar.” Caesar inaugurated a 12 day celebration of his birth called the Advent of Caesar.
Another popular phrase at the time, people would literally greet each other on the street by saying “Caesar is Lord”. So, in the first century, to claim that your god had risen from the dead and ascended into heaven; well, it just wasn’t that unique. The claims of these first Christians weren’t really anything new.
Everybody’s god had risen from the dead. What makes yours so special? Now, these first Christians believed that Jesus’ resurrection had implications for the entire universe. Their tradition had taught them that the world is broken and desperately in need of repair and that at some point in the future, God was going to put it all back together. Now, for them, this future restoration had nothing to do with leaving this world, it was all about restoration, the renewing and the reclaiming of this world.
And so they saw in Jesus’ Resurrection the beginning of this universe-wide movement to put it all back together. Well, this, of course, brought them into direct conflict with the Roman Empire, because remember, for the Caesars, it was all about Caesar’s belief that he was making a new and better world through his power, through his armies, and through his wealth.
And so when Caesar wanted to send out a message to let everybody know of his latest military conquest or his latest accomplishments, he would send out a royal pronouncement telling the masses of his latest achievements. These pronouncements were called in the Greek language “evangelions.” An “evangelion” was like a “gospel” or a “good news.” In English “evangelion” spells “evangelical.”
Now,these first Christians believed very passionately that the world was not made better through military power and political coercion. The Gospel they were living had nothing to do with using political force to force people to live according to your laws. For them, this Gospel was about serving the world, especially those on the underside of the Empire. For them, it was about serving not ruling.
And so they took this Empire propaganda term “gospel,” and they used it to describe this new world that Jesus and His followers were making right under the nose of the Empire. Because their way, the way of Jesus, was totally opposed to the way of Rome. And so, when we read accounts of how they lived, we read they shared their possessions, they fed the hungry, and they carried each other’s burdens.
Well, it’s because the Gospel for them was a whole way of life. A whole new world, right in the midst of this one. Now, Caesar had a particular word that was used for a city or a village or a province that worshipped Caesar as the Son of God, that acknowledged Caesar as Lord. So Caesar would conquer, with his armies, a new land and then demand that all of the people would confess “Caesar is Lord.”
If people didn’t, well, then they were crucified as a way of showing everybody what happens when you refuse to submit to the power of the Empire. But if a group of people did, if a city or a village of a region did acknowledge and worship Caesar as the Son of God, Lord, if they did accept Caesar as their savior, then the area became a worshipping center of the Caesar. These worshipping centers were called, in the Greek language, “ekklesias.”
The word “ekklesia” translates in English, “church.” And so these first Christians took this empire propaganda term “ekklesia,” and they used it to describe their gatherings, the ones where they confessed “Jesus is Lord”. Well, obviously, the way they were living it raised all sorts of questions for those around them. Who do you believe?
Caesar, who thinks that a new world, a better world, is made through his brut military and political power, by forcing people to do what he says? Or Jesus, who invites you to make a new and better world through loving acts of compassion and generosity? Caesar, who killed Jesus on an execution stake, or God, who raised Jesus from the dead? Whose way do you think is better? Who do you think is Lord? Jesus or Caesar? Whose kingdom do you find more compelling?
For them, the Gospel was an invitation to a whole new way of life. And they lived this way because they had this profoundly mystical understanding of what they were doing in their lives. They called themselves “the body of Christ.” And they believed that in their communities, in these loving, compassionate, generous, peace-loving communities, they believed that Jesus was present in a way that went beyond words.
So they’d invite people to join them, to eat with them, to celebrate with them, to suffer with them, and then they’d ask them, after they’d seen the hungry fed, the lonely loved, and the poor honored, they’d ask the people, “Well, do you think Jesus is here?” Or, more specifically, “Who do you think is Lord? Who’s making a better world, Caesar or Jesus?”
They believed that a church was a living, breathing display of a whole new world God was bringing about, right here, right now. Because some people, some people are fierce with reality, aren’t they? They don’t have to spout off about how they’re right and everybody else is wrong because there is something going on inside of them so powerful, so tangible, you can’t help but ask questions. You’re dying to know why they are the way they are. You want them to explain the reason for the hope that’s within them.
It’s because when you’re around people like this, you have this sense that you’ve in some way been with Jesus, and that is church. This group of people who by their compassion, their generosity, the grace that they extend to others, you find yourself believing when you’re around them, that God hasn’t given up on the world. That’s the Gospel. That’s it.
The Gospel is the good news that God hasn’t given up on the world, that the tomb is empty and that a giant resurrection rescue is underway and that you can be a part of it. And so, yes, this has a deeply personal dimension to this. Jesus is saving me. He’s saving me from my sins, from my mistakes, from my pride, from my indifference to the suffering of the world around me, from my cynicism and despair.
The brokenness I see in the world around me is true of my own soul, and so He’s resuing me moment by moment, day by day, because God wants to put it all back together. You, me, the whole world. And so He starts deep inside each of us with our awareness that we need help, that we need saving, that we need rescuing.
And then He begins to show us, step by step, what it looks like to put flesh and blood on this Gospel. Because we all fall short, and that’s the beautiful part. Broken, flawed, vulnerable people like you and me are invited to be the hands and feet of a Jesus who loves us exactly as we are and yet loves us way too much to let us stay that way. I believe. I believe because I see. I see the Resurrection all around me.
If people only had your life and they were asked the question: “Has Jesus risen from the dead?”, how would they answer? Has He? May you be a “yes” to the question “Has Jesus risen from the dead?” And may you come to see, may you understand, that you are the good news. You are the Gospel.
HT: Apprising
If Rob Bell believes that this is the Gospel, then He believes a different Gospel than is presented in the Bible. Mars Hill (Mi) is then just an assembly in the same ways as the temple of Caesar was in the false history that Rob presented in the video. It is liberalized, Oprafied, ‘churchianity’.
Yes.
Concerning what Bell said about Mithra, I’ll point to this web page.
http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/mithra.html
And a bit of what’s written on it.
1. Mithra was born of a virgin on December 25th in a cave, and his birth was attended by shepherds.
Next, the cave part. First of all, Mithra was not born of a virgin in a cave; he was born out of solid rock, which presumably left a cave behind — and I suppose technically the rock he was born out of could have been classified as a virgin!
7. He was buried in a tomb and after three days rose again.
8. His resurrection was celebrated every year.
I have to classify these two as “ringers” — I see no references anywhere in the Mithraic studies literature to Mithra being buried, or even dying, for that matter [Gordon says directly, that there is "no death of Mithras" -- Gor.III, 96] and so of course no rising again and no “resurrection” (in a Jewish sense?!) to celebrate. Freke and Gandy [Frek.JM, 56] claim that the Mithraic initiates “enacted a similar resurrection scene”, but their only reference is to a comment by Tertullian, significantly after New Testament times!
Tekton Research Assistant Punkish adds: The footnote is for Tertullian’s Prescription Against Heretics, chapter 40 which says, “if my memory still serves me, Mithra there, (in the kingdom of Satan, ) sets his marks on the foreheads of his soldiers; celebrates also the oblation of bread, and introduces an image of a resurrection, and before a sword wreathes a crown” …so their argument relies on Tertullian’s memory, and it isn’t the initiates but Mithra who does the celebrating and introduces an *image* of a resurrection?! How is that at all related to initiates acting out a scene?
Wynne-Tyson [Wyn.MFC, 24; cf. Ver.MSG, 38] also refers to a church writer of the fourth century, Firmicus, who says that the Mithraists mourn the image of a dead Mithras — still way too late! — but after reading the work of Firmicus, I find no such reference at all.
It is sad that you feel this way. Here are the one’s I disagree with:
The gospel is about saving men from their sins; serving is a result of salvation.
The actions of the Christians was as a result of their salvation, not earning their salvation.
The actions were not to bring the kingdom of God, the Christians were already living there.(This contradicts everything the bible teaches)
Moral living, including loving acts of compassion, do not equal salvation.(Again this contradicts what the bible teaches.)
The Gospel is not that God hasn’t given up on the world.(This is exactly what the gospel is)
The Gospel is that wicked criminals (all of us) who have offended God can confess, repent, and place trust in Christ’s work alone for their salvation.
Geesh we can’t agree on anything! Can you defend these statements from scripture? I am not seeing it.
Ephesians 2:8-10 is one right off the top of my head; For it is by grace that you have been saved through faith, and this is not of yourselves, it is a gift of God not of works lest anyone should boast, for we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works that God prepared in advance for us to do.
What are we saved from? See Romans 3 and also Romans 2:5 But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed.- talking about Romans 1:18-2:4
Mark 1:14 Now after John was arrested, Jesus came into Galilee, proclaiming the gospel of God, 15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”
Mark 9:1 And he said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power.”
Luke 11:20 But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
Luke 16:16 “The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone forces his way into it.
Luke 17:20 Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed, 21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.”
Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
Romans 3:9 No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and l Greeks, are under sin, 10 as it is written:
“None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”
13 o “Their throat is an open grave;
they use their tongues to deceive.”
“The venom of asps is under their lips.”
14 “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 in their paths are ruin and misery,
17 and the way of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
19 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. 20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in m his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Perhaps if Rob actually used a Bible, instead of referencing trite sayings that he has mish mashed, you who attend his church might be able to know the basic teachings of the faith.
–The actions of the Christians was as a result of their salvation, not earning their salvation.
What is your problem with this statement? The Bible is very clear that salvation is by faith, not by works.
–The actions were not to bring the kingdom of God, the Christians were already living there.(This contradicts everything the bible teaches)
How so? Where does the Bible say that we are to bring the kingdom of God?
–Moral living, including loving acts of compassion, do not equal salvation.(Again this contradicts what the bible teaches.)
Same as above, your position seems to be that moral living and compassion earn salvation, which would mean that salvation can be earned, that it is by works. Can you defend that via Scripture?
–The Gospel is not that God hasn’t given up on the world.(This is exactly what the gospel is)
Umm, no, it isn’t. The NT is quite clear that this world will end, that judgment is coming, and that we who believe look for new heavens and a new earth, where righteousness will dwell.
–The Gospel is that wicked criminals (all of us) who have offended God can confess, repent, and place trust in Christ’s work alone for their salvation.
Why is this such a hard one for you to accept? One need only read Romans to see this, “For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God”, “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord”.
The gospel is about saving men from their sins; serving is a result of salvation.
The actions of the Christians was as a result of their salvation, not earning their salvation.
What does James 2:20 mean then?
And James 2:26?
Philippians 2:12?
I would argue that salvation without works is dead. It is not a prayer you pray and you are finished. It is a life long commitment of dying daily and following Jesus. Be a Christian requires action John. They go hand in hand. One is it not the result of another.
The actions were not to bring the kingdom of God, the Christians were already living there.(This contradicts everything the bible teaches)
Check out the beginning of Genesis and the end of Revelation. The story starts with a perfect beautiful creation and end with God restoring it back to its original intent. We are living in God’s kingdom. It is messed up with sin right now but we are here.
Moral living, including loving acts of compassion, do not equal salvation.
Matthew 25:40
John 13:35
I John 3:10
those are just a few that goes against what you are saying
The Gospel is that wicked criminals (all of us) who have offended God can confess, repent, and place trust in Christ’s work alone for their salvation.
In your original post you simply said wicked criminals and Gods love and grace is for everyone. And as I said in my post, which you agreed with, this is not the only definition of the gospel!
Keep the insults coming though it really shows your love.:-)
–I would argue that salvation without works is dead.
James’ words were that faith without works is dead. As even the NT writers stressed, those who believe should live like it. But their salvation did not come by works, nor was kept by works. The same is true of us.
–Check out the beginning of Genesis and the end of Revelation. The story starts with a perfect beautiful creation and end with God restoring it back to its original intent. We are living in God’s kingdom. It is messed up with sin right now but we are here.
First, do you believe the Genesis count of creation is what really happened, that it is a true account of history, and not a “myth” or any other kind of fiction? If so, then you have the right to reference it. If not, then you have no right to.
Second, as is even stated in the book itself, Revelation is about things that will (as in, in the future) come to pass. I think it is in one of Peter’s books that we are told to look for a new heaven and new earth, with the obvious implication that it is not here yet. All in Scripture points to the fact that it will not come until Christ returns.
Constantlychanginglife (may I call you ccl for short?)
I noticed you didn’t give any Scriptures either. I’m not going to enter into this discussion because Pastorboy explained his position far better than I could; and if you don’t get it from him, you’ll never get it from me.
Let’s just say that I’m not surprised you don’t understand because; “And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men love the darkness rather than the light; for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who practices the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.” (John 3:19-21)
By the way, when you use the word “geesh” you are using the Lord’s name in a profane way. Those who truly love the Lord do not use His name that way.
CCL, Sorry I didn’t see your last reply before I posted mine. You’re still wrong in thinking that love equals salvation: “or what man is there among you, when a son shall ask him for a loaf, will give him a stone? Or if he shall ask for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much shall your Father in heaven give what is good to those who ask him!” (Matt. 7:9-11)
What these verses say is that even evil people can do good – doing good is by no means any indication of holiness, godliness, goodness, or proof of salvation.
Oh by the way, being a Christian requires obedience to Jesus and His Word. Being a Christian also requires that we repent of our sins (Luke 13:3), that we take up our crosses (Matthew 16:24). and that we give up our lives for Jesus’ sake (Matthew 16:25).
Of course, we can follow God’s command, given in Deuteronomy: “You shall follow the Lord your God and fear Him; and you shall keep His commandments, listen to His voice, serve Him, and cling to Him” (Deuteronomy 13:4). That is the essence of Christianity.
I’m curious, what name for God is that? I’m pretty familiar with all of the Hebrew and Greek names for God. I’m even familiar with the Spanish and Italian names. I’ve never heard God called “geesh” in any of those languages.
So a friend of mine asked this today and now I’ll ask it. What name for God is geesh? My friend’s comment was deleted. Why?
Joe I am in California, all new commenters get sent to the spam file until I approver them.
People who use geesh are going to heck- thats all I have to say
Kyle and Joe – “Geesh” is a form of “Jeez”; which itself is a shortened version of the holy name of Jesus. When the name of our Savior is used in the context that ccl chose, Jesus’ name has been reduced to a swear word, a profanity. This is using the Lord’s name in a profane way.
Similarly, “Gosh” is a variant of “God”; the phrase “Gosh darn it” was created as an acceptable (?) way to say “God d**n it” without the appearance of profanity. This also is using God’s name in a profane way. Hope this helps.
Sorry Dude,
I appreciate the explanation but no it’s not. This is legalism in it’s basest of forms. Makes it easy to spot.
And before you go there, I’m not suggesting you start using it. I say, “Good Soul” a lot. I suppose that is somehow a variant of another variant of another variant?
I’m not being funny, but do you see how you are adding to the Bible? That is heresy.
dude
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Jeez
jeez
One entry found.
Main Entry: jeez
Variant(s): also geez \ˈjēz\
Function: interjection
Etymology: euphemism for Jesus
Date: 1923
—used as a mild oath or introductory expletive (as to express surprise)
dude
gosh
One entry found.
Main Entry: gosh
Pronunciation: \ˈgäsh, ˈgȯsh\
Function: interjection
Etymology: euphemism for God
Date: 1757
—used as a mild oath or to express surprise
“…or to express surprise.” But that’s not geesh or sheesh. What about my “Oh my soul” or “good soul”?
BTW, Kyle you need to post more often man.
I know I’m late to this discussion, but I don’t serve a God named “Geesh”.
When Jesus said he came to give life… and life abundantly… when the Spirit speaks of the joy of Christ… even when God demands that people take him seriously…
Golly, do you really think he expected us to carry the burden of culturally conditioned phrases and what they may have meant at some previous time?
gol⋅ly
/ˈgɒli/ [gol-ee]
–interjection Informal.
(used as a mild exclamation expressing surprise, wonder, puzzlement, pleasure, or the like.)
Origin:
1840–50; euphemistic alter. of God
Repent, Sinner!!!